Just saw this when I was searching Atlantis, and it reminds me of a AH setting made on Alternate History .com. A setting that I totally loved and have fond memories of reading. - Oh, by the way, this is Pendragon on that site.
The issue is, the Azores were uninhabited before the Portuguese arrived and settled them, so there are no pure "Azoreans". If we wanted to look for Atlanteans, we would have to look for their genetic markers in other peoples, but we have no idea what sets "Atlanteans" apart genetically so we don't know what to look for.
well, i think it's a bit too early to say that. first of all, historians can't even agree on the actual facts of atlantis, like if it existed 3000 years ago or 9000 years ago. that's a differrence of 6000 years, if you suddenly forgot how to count. also, most importantly, whether you talk about 3000 years ago or 9000 years ago, during that time, there no signs by the road saying: "welcome to atlantis", so even if scientists find an ancient city that does happen to have sunk beneath the waves, they still have no idea which city it is. and lastly, wouldn't it be way more fun if atlantis would never be discovered? wouldn't it be way cooler to think that it's this beautiful alien place of wonder than the dull depressing reality that it's probably just some stone columns on the seabed?
sorry about that whole thing. i was in the mood for writing something big.
I agree that simply passing Atlantis off as Thera, Santorini, or any other Mediterranean island is ultimately incorrect if you count Plato's words as literal (which I do), but I wouldn't use the Atlantic Ocean as any kind of evidence. The ocean was named after Plato wrote about Atlantis and was probably named precisely because of his writing, not because of the island, if that makes sense.
So if the Atlantic ocean was named after Plato wrote about it wouldn't that logically indicate that the island civilization he was talking about was in the ocean that we now call the Atlantic? He even stated that it was west of the pillars of Hercules (Straits of Gibraltar). Have you ever looked into the underwater grid found on google maps/google earth which is EXACTLY where the mythical Atlantis is supposed to be which is in the Azores islands region? NOAA ( a government agency) even made an article responding to people suspecting that the underwater grid was some lost civilization possibly Atlantis or whatever. heres the link :
You are definitely preaching to the choir here. I don't think that you were trying to disagree with me, but it does seem like a waste of energy trying to inform me about what I have already done my own research on in the first place. It is refreshing to know that others are at least trying to spread this pertinent information. If I could give you one piece of advice, it would be to start a discussion with the assumption that everyone else already knows what you're talking about, and then only pull out the "Did you know..?" and "Have you ever..?" cards when it becomes obvious that they haven't. In that way, you come off as a helpful informer, rather than something altogether more unpleasant.
It's not the "beyond the Pillars of Heracles" part that makes me find the Minoan hypothesis implausible; it's the line about "facing Gades", which in no way describes anything in the Mediterranean, much less the Aegean. If Atlantis existed (and it's not unreasonable to think it might not have), then it was definitely in the Atlantic somewhere. Honestly, I find South American hypotheses (Jim Allen's Bolivia hypothesis, or an Atlantis in the Parana River delta of Argentina) most plausible.
I think that given Plato's Hellenic location, both the "beyond the Pillars of Heracles" and the "facing Gades" statements amount to the same thing. Both seem to imply that Atlantis was located west of the Pillars of Heracles and not in the Mediterranean, but to each his own. Of course, I wouldn't want to assume that Atlantis did exist, but at the same time, like you, I find much enjoyment in keeping an open mind. Personally, I don't speculate about where Atlantis could have been located in North or South America. Ever since I read a few articles concerning the sunken landmass portrayed in this map, located on the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, I tend to keep my speculation centered around that. I guess its just a very blank slate when you start from there.
I'm inclined to agree, but some of the more adamant Santorini people do try to argue that by "Pillars of Heracles" Plato meant a location in the Aegean. For this reason, I prefer to emphasise the bit about "facing Gades", because that's harder to fudge.
I actually find the more traditional mid-Atlantic ridge speculation to be very interesting, and in some cases, even plausible; I just personally have a slight preference for the South American versions, because those tend to be remarkably well-argued.
Actually, I recently remember reading a thing that argued that Cuba was Atlantis. That was definitely interesting, if nothing else.
That's a good point. It would be hard to dispute the location of Cadiz. I guess that when I look at evidence of possible ancient civilizations in the Americas, such as the underwater stone "structures" in the Bahamas, I tend to think of them as outposts or offshoots of something larger, since the evidence seems to suggest that the Azores Plateau rose above sea level and supported terrestrial plants and freshwater fauna (at the very least) more than once in the past 30 million years, with some suggesting a date as recently as 8,000 bc. Given that the landmass was there, and capable of supporting human life (which would explain some odd cro magnon migrations), I tend to shape my theories around that. There wouldn't be much archaeological evidence of such an ancient lost civilization, seeing as how most of it would be interred under meters of sediment a mile below the surface. But I submit, it is possible that "Atlantis" has nothing to do with this lost continent, and the matters could be separate. Either way, this lost continent still has many implications.
you need to read up on edgar cayce, hes pretty accurate, he claimed the sahara desert was under water in these times and then the nile drained into the atlantic or something like that, science has then come to theorize the same.
i like it, from what i gather the continent extended from the carribean to about where you have it, then it broke up into islands then it inundated. after watching the earthquake details of japan i wonder if its possible that the land mass that atlantis sat on actually slipped under another tectonic plate over time and well only be able to see part of what is remained.
I hadn't actually. The map is based on the bathymetry of the Mid Atlantic Ridge as I thought putting Atlantis in the Caribbean would make it more like a large American island rather than a continent. The names are from the original Plato myth - the twins and their parents and Plato's three islands (except Poseidonia - I decided just to call the main landmass Atlantis) - and a game I had set in Atlantis (Yrm Isle and Cilyrf Island) - all 'translated' into an Atlantean conlang I made ie. Sargashic Sea is just Sargasso Sea in Atlantean.
Just the way I imagined it would look based on those undersea sattelite images of the Mid-Atlantic ridge. Except, of course, I think Atlantis would have been a bigger. A little bit wider, (remember, Bermuda and the Bahamas are supposed to be remnants of Atlantis.) Also, I think Iceland is supposed to be a remnant, as well. I can't tell if you included it, but please don't hold that against me. Plus, I think Atlantis would have been much longer. After all, the Mid-Atlantic Ridge goes all the way down to in between the southern portions of Africa and South America. Other than that, though, this is very nice! A great, accurate portrayal of the Lost Continent. (As close as we can portray without hopping into a time machine to see it 12,000 years ago.)
Keep up the good work! (Seriously, can you do a map of Lemuria? It's another lost continent that was supposed to have been south of India, and in between Madagascar and Malaysia.)